Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Sunlite Suite 2 is a complete re-design of Suite 1. Please discus any issues here

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Tschosef
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Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:58 am

Hello,

The last days i byed the suite 2, because i want to control our light setup live (live band). Because this, i also byed a Livid Ohm64 Midi Controler. I think this is the best way for me, to control the setup. (Some Faders, and manny push buttons with backlights.

with the Livid Om 64 Setup software i configure the device to send Midi control Messages on all button. Each Button a different Message. the backlights are also swichted by Control Message.

first tests show... "it works".

I created the console with the console creater from sunlite Suite 2 (07.06.2011), and implemented the console into the software. It seems to work, but i had some trouble with the Option: Console setup ==> Togle ( flash) ==> Value True/False....
always if i restarted the software, i must change this value, then the software works correkt, until i restart the software.

Now i installed the Beta Version from 30.11.2011, because a other problem (DMX Timing, you know).
Since i installed the new beta, i have a new problem.... i am not able to swich of the Flash Option!!! It is always in Flash Mode.

If i swich of the Flash option, the "virtual console" is working well. If i click a button with mouse, the Backlight of Controler goes on, and the button is pressed.... but if i trigger the button by Midi control Message from the controler, the flash mode is still alive. I am not able to swich it of.

is this a feature, or is it a bug ? :-)

Please could you fix this problem soon, because at 7.Jan 2012 we have our first gig, then the system MUST WORK!

a other question.... is the software always loading the console file at every start, or must i update the console data in a other way?

greez
Erich

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by simonB » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:22 am

Flash(toggle) mode is a property you need to set on your ohm64. The flash(toggle) command in suite 2 only allows buttons to flash when you click them with the mouse on the console. This option does not affect the way the actual MIDI controller works. Check the data being received in the MIDI test dialog and check that your MIDI device is not sending another message when you release the button.
Simon
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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:21 am

Hello Simon,

i am not shure if its possible to change the settings in the ohm64 setup to swich off the message witch is sent, when the button is released.
Is it not possible to ignore the Button Release MidiMessage in the console editor or Sunlite suite2 ?

Why did it work in the suite version 07.06.2011 ?? (I thougt it works.... hmmm....)

hm... cracy things.. i not realy understand the logic behind this things :-)
may be, the problem is, i am also a programmer of a software :-) (Lasershow) also using dmx and midi... it may be that my way of thinking differs from that of normal users

best greez
Erich

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by RichterMC » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:23 pm

Hi Erich,
Is it not possible to ignore the Button Release MidiMessage in the console editor or Sunlite suite2 ?
Check out what your Midi-Controller sends to Suite 2 with the Midi-Monitor window.
Your find the Midi-Monitor window in "Software preferences - MIDI Setup.

Look what the controller sends when a button is pressed and what message is send when the button is released.

Post your finding here and we will help you to setup the software.


Gruß Gernot

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:39 pm

Hello Gernot,

if i press a button, the message is:

Channel 1
Status 11 - Control Change
Pegel 127

if i release the button, the message is

Channel 1
Status 11 - Control Change
Pegel 0

all buttons are sending Control Change Messages
Each button a other command
command 1 up to 108 are in use...
If it will help, i am able to change the messages to Midi NoteOn and NoteOf Messages for the Buttons.


thank you verry much.

greez
Erich

PS:.. hätt ich auch in deutsch schreiben können, gell Gernot? Bist Du der Gernot der auch im LF Forum aktiev is?
grüße Tschosef

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by RichterMC » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:32 pm

Hi,

O.K. here we go :-)

You have to change the setting in the "MIDI Command settings" window "Command mode action" like this:

-> enable "Trigger level"
-> "In active level" = On/off
-> "Outside active level" = None

GERMAN:
hätt ich auch in deutsch schreiben können, gell Gernot? Bist Du der Gernot der auch im LF Forum aktiev is?
Ja, Deutsch wäre für mich auch O.K. :-)
Es macht aber Sinn hier, wenn möglich, Englisch zu schreiben.
Damit erreichst Du viel mehr User und Du bekommst mehr und schneller Hilfe.
LF Forum ? Welches meinst Du ?

Bis bald...

Gruß Gernot

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:45 am

Hello Gernot,


thank you for reply... I remember those options, but I forgot
to use them( sorry....) now i understand them.....

so you see, i am still just a beginner in this software. Thank you very much

@ Gernot...

war kurzsichtig von mir die Verknüpfung zu Gernot aus dem LaserfreakForum zu machen.... es gibt bestimmt mehrere Gernots auf dieser Welt :-)
LF = LaserFreak

Eins meiner Hobbys ist Lichttechnik..... ein "Spezialgebiet" dabei sind Lasershows, bzw. das Programmieren derselbigen. Dabei hab Ich die Software "HE-Laserscan" verbrochen :-)
Der Gernot aus dem LF Forum hat da auch schon damit gearbeitet.... daher mein Blitzgedanke, du könntest das sein, was natürlich quatsch war.

viele Grüße
Erich

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by laserrichi » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:57 pm

Hi,

nice, I've also learned there now, these details are not negligible, especially since I needed something to find the settings.

German:

Ich fühl mich jetzt schon etwas schuldig Erich, das ich dich zu der Software gebracht habe. Je mächtiger die Software ist, umso mehr Feinheiten und details kommen zu tage :-)

Gruß Richard

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:03 am

Hello Richi

no problem, generally I think the software is okay. it offers very much features.
It is hard when there are so many options that are very similar.
one example:

Flash Options could be set in:

A) Console editor
B) Suite ==> Console ==> Right Mouse click on Console Button ==> Console Setup
C) Suite ==> console ==> Richt Mouse Klick on Console Button ==> Live(1) ==> DoubleClick on a CommandEntry==> Flash Mode (unter the Button Selection)
D) Suite ==> Scene ==> control Right Click ==> Settings ==> Trigger ==> Inputports or Key ==> Flashmode (i think i know their usage)
E)I bet I could still find a other flash option :-)

If i search the Manual for the word "Flash"... i find 1 single entry... (Keyboard assign)

I think this is the Problem. Its a software with a lot of features and functions. But not all of them are described. This can cause frustration :-)


Now.. this morning, i tried the suggestion made by Gernot.
It works... now the console works correct.. (Flash mode, or not)

But i still have a other problem..... I think i will be able to fix it selve, otherwise i will ask here :-)
or could someone explain, why now the backlight of the midi button is only lightning , if i press the button on the controller. If i release the button, the light is off again. But if i click on a button on the Virtual Console ... the light is always on (not flash mode) if the Scene is selected. I am also able to select the sceene with mouse, then the backlight is on....


best regards
Erich

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by RichterMC » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:55 pm

Hi Erich,
B) Suite ==> Console ==> Right Mouse click on Console Button ==> Console Setup
This one is just for the console GUI in Suite 2. You can make a button on the GUI a latch button or a flash button.
C) Suite ==> console ==> Richt Mouse Klick on Console Button ==> Live(1) ==> DoubleClick on a CommandEntry==> Flash Mode (unter the Button Selection)
This one is new since the last Beta, so you won´t find it in the manual yet.
Somehow "Flash" is not such a good description for this function, maybe you got a better idea after I tell you what it does. :-)
It actually disable the "Auto release" function of a switch button, so you can flash a switch like with the keyboard or the right mouse button.
Crystal clear, now ? :-)
Example:
Your Moving Heads have the star gobo switch enabled, if click on the circle gobo button with the left mouse,
the star gobo switch will be released and the heads will show the circle gobo. (At least this is the behavior on default switch setting "LTP" and "auto release" on)
If you use the right mouse button to trigger the circle gobo switch, the star gobo switch is not released, when you release the right mouse from the circle switch
the heads will show the star gobo again. So you can temporary overwrite a DMX channel (Gobo channel in our example) and when go back to the state in was before the "overwrite flash".
So if you enable "Flash" in the "Midi command setting" window, you can flash switches with your midi controller without "auto release" like with your keyboard or right mouse.
D) Suite ==> Scene ==> control Right Click ==> Settings ==> Trigger ==> Inputports or Key ==> Flashmode (i think i know their usage)
Yes, that´s easy. Flash mode for keyboard shortcuts and Flash mode for Input ports on your USB/DMX interface.
Here´s another tip for setting up keyboard shortcuts fast and easy:
- Select a button on a page with your mouse
- Hold down ctrl/Strg and press a key on your keyboard -> you got a latch trigger
- press the key on the keyboard twice by still holding down ctrl/Strg -> you got a flash trigger
- Hold down crtl/Strg and press Del/Entf. will delete the shortcut from the button.
Cool ?
I think this is the Problem. Its a software with a lot of features and functions. But not all of them are described. This can cause frustration :-)
Frustration ? Come on :-)
We really try our best to get you going with Suite 2.
Please keep in mind, that some features are new in this Beta release, and therefore not yet in the manual.

GERMAN:
Erich schrieb:
war kurzsichtig von mir die Verknüpfung zu Gernot aus dem LaserfreakForum zu machen.... es gibt bestimmt mehrere Gernots auf dieser Welt :-)
LF = LaserFreak
Ja, Gernots sind sicher noch ein paar vom Band gelaufen. :-)
Ich bin nicht im LaserFreak Forum unterwegs, ich hatte aber mal eine Schulung auf Pangolin, ist schon Jahre her.
HE-Laserscan kenn' ich (noch) nicht.

Gruß
Gernot

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:27 pm

Hello,


i have still a problem with midi console:
Please could someone explain, why now the backlight of the midi button is only lightning , if i press the button on the controller. If i release the button, the light is off again.
If i click on a button on the Virtual Console ... the light is correct on (not flash mode) if the Scene is selected. I am also able to select the sceene in the Maserpage or FixturePage with mouse, then the light is on....correctly.

So it seems, the light is not working correct, if i activate a Scene or button by using the MIDI console.

The Midi message to switch the light on is simple:

Channel 1
Status (xx) - Control Change
Pegel 127 is switching on
Pegel 0 is switching off...

(xx) is the number of led to switch on....


[[Edit in the evening:]]

now, i have to explain more here....


1)
so, if i swich the comand mode Action settings in the following way:
TrigerLevel
In active Level ON
outside Active level OFF

in this case the Makro Button is only flashed by the Midi controler button, the Scenes could be selected, because one scene is always on.
BUT in this case, the LED of the button is correct for the Macros.... its flashing if i press the midi controler, and its on, if i press the scenebutton or a MakroButton in the Masterpage with mouse

okay.. thats it... one scene is always selected.. so i would be happy, if the led of the assigned scene is on, independet of the way how i selected the scene.


2) the same could be found with Makros on the Masterpage.... Flashing is okay if i need flashing makros.

but as i described, sometimes i need NotFlashingMode... because this, i change the settings into this:
In Active Level On/Off
outside actrive level None

Then, i am able to swich the Macros in masterpage On and Of by pressing and release the midi controler button. But the LED of the Midi controler button is still only flashing.
if i select the Makro by mouse in the master page... no led of the midi controler is lightning.... Only if i select the button on the virual console with mouse, the light on the real Midi Controler is on, and the Scene is selected.

Also here i wish a overview by the led`s on the midi controler, wich macros on the masterpage are actually selected.
hope you understand my problem....

best regards
Erich


PS: 10 Minutes later....
cracy.. .if i use the mouseclick on the virtual console, i have to click on a button 4 times, to swich the makro on the masterpage on or of :-)

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by RichterMC » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:45 pm

Hi Erich,

we talked about some aspects in PM already.

I don´t own a MIDI controller with illuminated buttons, so a can´t test with the real thing.
Hovever I can monitor the outgoing messages.
I will do some testing begining of next week an let you know.
if i use the mouseclick on the virtual console, i have to click on a button 4 times, to swich the makro on the masterpage on or of :-)
Hmm.. this sounds like a bug.
Can you reproduce this ?


Best,
Gernot

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:03 am

Hello Gernot...
Hmm.. this sounds like a bug.
Can you reproduce this ?
yes... i will check it and write a exact description......

I think the basic princip is actually simple. Each LED of the Midi Controler must simply show the current status of the associated software element. It must show if a Button is pressed or not. Motorfaders must show Value of a dimmer-knob .... and so on.

The key for the feedback is the actual state of the scene, the macro or the knobs in the program. From this perspective, the program simply must update the midi values, whenever the condition of these items have been changed.

Of course the elements themselves can be changed in different ways, by using the mouse, the keyboard, the virtual midi controller or the real midi controller or by dmx in.

I think there is currently a degree of redundancy program in the control of the LED displays and that causes errors.

best regards
Erich

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by laserrichi » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:37 am

Hi, what is the status now. Work on Midicontrolers now the feedback lights ?

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Re: Midi Problem: Livid Ohm64 + Suite 2 Beta, 30.11.2011

Post by Tschosef » Thu May 03, 2012 11:28 am

Hello,

i simply push this topic :-)
are there some news to the Midi feedback ?

if this will work, i will be happy with software :-)

greez
Erich

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